Editor's Blog
Thomas McCabe is one of three new Directors — along with Max More and Howard Bloom — of Humanity+, the nonprofit that publishes H+ Magazine.
As Program Coordinator, he is responsible for assisting the board in establishing and managing the day-to-day operations and internal processes of Humanity+, including establishing employee requirements and managing employees. Thomas, Humanity+ Chairman Ben Goertzel, and Amy Li are currently planning for the upcoming Humanity+ conference on December 4-5 at Caltech, which you can register for here.
H+: Thomas, you got into transhumanism at a very young age. What inspired you and why do you think you started thinking about such big issues? And did you have anybody in your physical proximity to talk to?
Thomas McCabe: I’ve always thought about big issues in general, going back to elementary school. The reason transhumanism and the Singularity caught my attention, back in 2003, was that they struck me as a way to have a very large impact on the world, starting from a relatively small resource base. Technology always works like that — the people and ideas that get in during the initial growth stages of the industry wind up dominating. Harvard is 400 years old, and it’s still the #1 ranked university in America (disclaimer: I’m a Yalie). Ford is 100 years old and it’s still the #1 American car company. Dell, Microsoft and Compaq still dominate the PC industry, and so forth.
I hated adolescence in general and middle/high school specifically. I do think a nontrivial portion (though certainly not all!) of the reason was that I had all of these interesting ideas about the future of humanity, and no one to talk to. The universe that we jam young people into nowadays is very small.
In my day-to-day life, of course, most people still aren’t interested in transhumanism, but I don’t really mind. If there are 6,000 students at Yale and 1% of them are interested — that’s sixty people. But children don’t really have that big pool to draw from. I think that’s largely why so many geniuses disliked school and were mostly self-taught, most famously Einstein, and including our own Eliezer
Yudkowsky.
H+: Staying on the age tip for the moment, you are probably the youngest member of the Humanity+ Board of Directors ever. Do you bring a fresh perspective to H+ and is there a generational difference that you’ve noticed within transhumanism, more generally?
TM: I’d like to think that I bring in a fresh perspective, but I want to make sure I’m not needlessly flattering myself. I do think that it’s probably good for more young people to be involved in Humanity+, which is why I pushed for Bryan Bishop to be appointed as Assistant Director of R&D. As far as I know, everyone on the Board except me is over 30 (I turned 19 last summer), and a majority are over 40. That seems suboptimal for an organization that wants to be focused on the latest developments in technology and the future fifty or more years out.
I have noticed that the people who work for the Singularity Institute, which is how I originally got involved in transhumanism, are almost all young, rarely over 30 or 35. I don’t think we should have so much of a gap there, given that we share a large number of the same memes. With Singularity Institute president Michael Vassar, I am currently working together to forge closer ties within what I like to call the “technoactivist” community. I just made up that word because there wasn’t an existing one, but I think it would really help us a lot to have a single word — “technoactivism” or something else — that means seriously looking at the technologies we’re likely to develop over the next century, and trying to influence their development. That’s what SIAI and FHI and the Immortality Institute and Humanity+ and IEET and so on all have in common. Though, of course, our opinions differ widely on how technology development should be influenced.
H+: You volunteer for a wide variety of transhumanist organizations (including H+ magazine… thank you), but could you define a singular interest or passion or discipline within the context of transhumanism that you think you want to focus on? Do you plan on doing scientific research or tech development or the like?
TM: I plan on accomplishing the greatest good for the greatest number. One of the main planks of my philosophy is: the world is a very big place, so you can always do more, and so if what you are doing is a good idea, it should be done on a grand scale. If you can free one slave, why not free a thousand? If you can cure one case of malaria, why not cure a million? If you can make a widget, why not make a billion?
Within the context of transhumanism, I think that translates into building a world where we have competent, well-informed people guiding our society’s technological development. Currently, the people in charge of research and technology funding don’t even recognize the utility of curing aging, a disease that takes thirty-five million lives every year. At the same time, there’s no one who can say “this technology looks like it will lead to individual terrorists having the power to destroy continents, so let’s not have anyone fund it”. My ultimate end goal is to achieve that, and then once that is done, everything else will follow in fairly short order.
To some, this might sound like a negative thing, because it would involve restricting some lines of research which are likely to be dangerous. However, the historical record is that, under our current regime of research and innovation, the very first time we developed a technology with the power to kill billions (nuclear weapons), we almost wiped out our civilization. We must, therefore, handle the development of these technologies differently.
H+: It sounds like you’re talking about relinquishment. But some of the technologies with the highest potential for destruction also have the greatest potential for transforming the human condition. For instance, nanotechnology could be very dangerous to all life… and it could end resource scarcity and disease. Not ending resource scarcity and disease could also be very dangerous to all life, as it can lead to panic and war with powerful weapons. What do you think about the proactionary principle as a guide?
TM: Currently, one of the main mistakes that the people guiding technological development are making is paying too much attention to very low-level risks. If you’re dying of a terminal disease, and the FDA refuses to approve your treatment because they don’t know if the drug might cause side effects after ten years, they’ve effectively killed you. I fully support eliminating those sorts of regulatory frameworks which are designed to respond to, not actual risk, but merely media-amplified public perception of risk.
There are no technologies I know of which are so dangerous, and of so little benefit, that the correct response is to never do any research on them ever. However, if a technology is obviously dangerous, then we as a species simply must have enough unity of will to implement sane policies regarding that technology, at least if we wish to survive the next millennium. Of course, what sane policies are varies from time to time and place to place. In 1940, it was obviously the correct decision to push ahead with nuclear research as fast as possible, because what we wouldn’t do, the Nazis would. On the other side, waiting twenty-five years to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty was (in my opinion) dumb.
Quite frankly, the idea that *not* developing a particular technology would very probably result in panic or global war, strikes me as being implausible. Suppose the laws of physics were slightly different, so that the technology in question was physically impossible or impractical to build. Would, then, our entire species be condemned to live in global chaos forever?
The benefits of many technologies are, of course, immense, and that’s why I think it’s important to distinguish between technologies where risk and benefit are comparable, and technologies where they are grossly out-of-alignment. For instance, new medicines tend to be in the former group: a new, untested drug might cure your disease, or it might make your disease worse, or give you an additional disease. With these sorts of technologies, our existing frameworks work fairly well, and in many cases restrictions have obviously become too strict over the past fifty years. If heroin makes you addicted and drives you crazy, we’ll figure it out soon enough, and the level of harm done will be relatively minimal, even without government intervention. Ditto for most self-modification tech, since whatever you do wrong, you’ll only screw yourself up.
On the other hand, with nanotechnology, we simply cannot have a situation where anyone can buy a device that can kill a billion people with the push of a few buttons, no matter how much good it might do the purchaser. No matter what else we do, that cannot happen, or we will rapidly go extinct. So we, as a species, need to be able to implement policies that prevent that from happening. A transparent society, a totalitarian new world order, regulation by the UN, a corporate oligopoly, universal cooperation among universities and funding agencies… there are infinitely many options, but we do need something to stop that from happening, and right now there isn’t anything at all.
H+: Do you think a lot about how future developments will affect you personally, or do you think more abstractly about society and humanity and so forth? Or is it fairly balanced?
TM: On a personal level, of course I’d like a jetpack, but there’s not much I can do to speed that up. Even if I made a hundred million dollars and threw it into a jetpack R&D program, how big of an effect would that really have? I might get the jetpack in 24 years instead of 27.
On the other hand, small decisions can have a big effect on a societal scale, because the benefit of the technology is multiplied across everyone who uses it. If a hundred million people get their jetpacks three years earlier, that’s 300 million additional jetpack-years. (I shall now use the “jetpack-year” as my standard unit of enjoyment.) So yes, I do think (as a general rule) of personal stuff in the
short-term and future developments in the long term.
H+: What ideas have blown your mind in the last year or so?
TM: I have, to be blunt, probably become more cynical over the past year, caused by sheer incredulity at how many stupid decisions we have collectively made. It really is quite amazing, for instance, that Germany once democratically elected a fairly obvious mass-murdering psychopath. On the other hand, this means that life in the future could be much better, in ways that aren’t obvious just by looking at differences in technology. The Enlightenment gave us electricity and cars, but it also gave us the idea that government and society should be based on reason. If you look at the obituaries of ancient Romans, or actually go and read the Old Testament, you will find that people used to consider it normal to boast about how many townsfolk they murdered while sacking a city, as one of their greatest accomplishments in life. It’s nice to live in a time when people don’t do that anymore.
H+: In the nearer term, over the next few years, what do you think Humanity+ needs to focus on?
TM: I think that one of the big things we need to focus on is becoming more organized, and working to create a more cohesive community. There’s already a very wide-ranging group of thousands of transhumanists, all over the world, with different ideas, different goals and different skills. However, this doesn’t mean very much when this (generally very intelligent and capable) group of people can’t really work together effectively, because there are no systems set up for mass communication and coordination.
As I mentioned in my “campaign speech,” I think we should also start looking into technology research and development ourselves. I think this really is one of the areas where a nonprofit can have a significant impact, because science is (outside of medicine, defense, and highly specialized for-profits like semiconductors) so grossly underfunded. The entire National Science Foundation has an annual budget of only $6B. It would be hard for a nonprofit to become as large as Google or Microsoft, but having 10% of the NSF’s budget and focusing it on the highest-impact transhumanist technologies looks very doable.
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13 Comments
“If you can make a widget, why not make a billion?”
Maybe because more widgets aren’t the answer?
“Within the context of transhumanism, I think that translates into building a world where we have competent, well-informed people guiding our society’s technological development.”
It’s a nice sentiment, and I agree that we should do what we can to encourage the cultivation of wisdom in our complex cultural ecology. But insofar as establishing some enlightened leadership by the technocratic elite, do you REALLY believe we have *any* say in this anymore? And what gives you that idea?
“If heroin makes you addicted and drives you crazy, we’ll figure it out soon enough, and the level of harm done will be relatively minimal, even without government intervention. Ditto for most self-modification tech, since whatever you do wrong, you’ll only screw yourself up.”
I don’t recall heroin being a victimless crime, when observed from a sociological standpoint. If you’re suggesting that ANY (inevitable but largely unpredictable) tech is guaranteed to be ANY which way for certain, I ask you to write the computer program that determines the ultimate risk inherent in an idea.
“A transparent society, a totalitarian new world order, regulation by the UN, a corporate oligopoly, universal cooperation among universities and funding agencies…”
[sarcasm]Yeah, any of those will do…[/sarcasm] If we factor out the options that trade techno-armageddon for unthinkable human rights violations (what people call the NWO is the fruit of an ancient and more recently corporate oligarchy that paved the way for itself in part with UN regulation …Do your history, man!), I only see one option, which also happens to be the one that seems most likely to be in progress as a natural evolutionary trend – the transparent society. In some ways, it’s no less terrifying an option, to the voice of the controller.
(But mutual accountability, I’m sure you agree, is a beautiful thing. And ultimately, perhaps, once we all find ourselves in the same fishbowl we’ll learn to stop throwing stones.)
Thomas, you seem like a bright enough guy – are you seriously talking about STEERING this planet-level (or greater) evolutionary drama? I’m sure that you’ve noticed we’re already just bit polyps on the reef…just one bacterium in the infinite starchipelago…please tell me how that deeper, fractal understanding of yours translates into actionable guidance for an accelerating age?
love,
your reflection in a largely but somewhat disharmoniously conjunct memome,
Michael
http://facebook.com/therealmichaelgarfield
PS – Any conflict from here on out is actually cooperation at the level of the potentiating noosphere.
PPS – Hey, I calls ‘em like I sees ‘em. Whale biologist. http://bit.ly/dAUGKc
I don’t care if he is the program director if he dosent have anything useful to say. He’s got the enthusiasm, but without experience it can only take one so far, as indicated by his statements.
To make someone so young a director in your institution does not reflect well upon you.
“The Enlightenment gave us electricity and cars, but it also gave us the idea that government and society should be based on reason.”
Say huh?
I think TM might mean that the Enlightenment brought around the Industrial Revolution and that Industry gave us electricity and cars. But I do like the notion of Newton in a dune buggy!
Seats are decided by an election by the organization’s members. I personally voted for Thomas because, as a 25 year old, I feel our generation offers a unique perspective. While Thomas nor I have the resume of a Ben Goertzel or a Howard Bloom, I believe we have experience in maturing with information technologies that are impossible to achieve for my older friends and colleagues. Just a little tidbit to show that ageism can operate in both directions…
While I disagree with many of the things Thomas has to say, I wouldn’t throw everything away out of hand. If you have specific disagreements, listing them explicitly might make for more utilitarian conversation.
Speaking on utilitarianism, I disagree such an approach is appropriate going into the future.
"He’s got the enthusiasm, but without experience it can only take one so far, as indicated by his statements."
I am happy to respond, and if useful to learn from, substantial critiques, but this is not one of them. It is a pure ad hominem insult, and is no more substantial a criticism than "u r a fag".
"To make someone so young a director in your institution does not reflect well upon you."
Bill Gates. Michael Dell. Mark Zuckerberg. Sean Parker. Max Levchin.
Hmmm… well, as the Chairman of the Humanity+ Board, I can tell you that Tom is doing a great job as Program Coordinator (and Board member), helping us keep the organization running.
Note that the Board of a volunteer-run organization like Humanity+ is a bit different from the Board of a big, rich organization with a lot of employees, like Red Cross or Exxon. In the case of Humanity+, the Board has always played a major role in the practical day-to-day of the organization, rather than providing a mainly advisory and “watchdog” role as with many larger orgs. In this context, it seems very appropriate to have young and energetic people on the Board, alongside some more experienced folks.
Board members of Humanity+ are elected by the members, and I advocated to the members for Tom to be elected — because I thought he would contribute a lot, which he has. Also, I’m the one who suggested to give him the Program Coordinator role, which has worked out great.
I think the futurist movement can use more creative, energetic people of all different ages. Everyone has something different to offer.
One could argue that, in the case of the futurist movement, youth have a special role — because they grew up with relatively advanced technology, so to a greater extent the future is “in their bones.” Also, if Kurzweil is right that the Singularity will occur round 2045, it’s Tom’s generation that is virtually guaranteed to live that long.
On the other hand, one could also argue that the very old have a special role in the futurist movement — because they’ve been through so many big technological changes already, so they understand how to deal with them.
So maybe we need a couple more teenagers in our leadership, plus a supercentenarian or two!
Seriously, I think we will be best off with a movement and a leadership containing a broad diversity of ages, cultures and perspectives. What I really look forward to is giving up my job as Chairman to a benevolent artificial intelligence
…
Sure, but then you could also say that the Enlightenment gave us science, which gave us better metalworking abilities, which gave us the steam engine, which gave us industries based on mechanical power, which gave us… I think it’s perfectly fine to omit intermediate steps, so long as the causal chain holds (ie, without the Enlightenment we wouldn’t have had cars, which is true.)
Firstly, thank you for actually responding to my claims rather than attacking me as a person.
"Maybe because more widgets aren’t the answer?"
The answer to what? Of course, more widgets won’t solve all of our problems. But then, neither will anything else. Curing smallpox isn’t the answer to poverty, war, heart disease or indigestion. Does that mean it was bad or unimportant?
"I don’t recall heroin being a victimless crime, when observed from a sociological standpoint."
If Joe Smith shoots up heroin in his apartment tonight, who does it hurt, other than Joe Smith? Heroin is a stupid thing to do, to be sure, but then, jumping off of a twenty-foot cliff is also stupid, and we don’t make that illegal. Nor does anyone argue that we should.
"[sarcasm]Yeah, any of those will do…[/sarcasm]"
I certainly don’t think that all of those are good ideas, merely that all of them would, in fact, solve the problem of world-destroying technology. I included good ideas as well as bad ideas to illustrate the wide range of options. No idea, no matter how bad, has only negative effects. The world of George Orwell’s 1984 would, in fact, prevent us from destroying ourselves. This does certainly not mean that it wouldn’t be an abysmal place to live, nor that we should try to implement it.
"what people call the NWO is the fruit of an ancient and more recently corporate oligarchy that paved the way for itself in part with UN regulation …Do your history, man!"
(citation needed)
"Thomas, you seem like a bright enough guy – are you seriously talking about STEERING this planet-level (or greater) evolutionary drama?"
Yes. http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/power
Thomas, I’m just curious what kind of things you will be doing in the future. You were asked if you were going to do scientific research or tech development, but your answer seemed vague.
It sounds like you are focused on being a communicator and are being groomed for a prominent role in that capacity by being made Program Director at such a young age to help influence public opinion with “technoadvocacy”. Are you going to work on any specific scientific or technical research, or are you going to play more of a kind of advocate/transhumanist lobbyist sort of role? There’s nothing wrong with that at all, and that is useful.
But who I’m interested in learning about and hearing from are the young 20 something nanotech, biotech, AI engineers and scientists who are going to actually invent and develop the advancements that we all love to learn and talk about. Those are the people I am interested in filling the age gap you were talking about. I know they are out there, my sister’s one of them. But they are busy developing things and don’t have as much time to run websites and blog.
Without Drog inventing fire we wouldn’t have the Large Hadron Collider!
Sorry, I omitted a few intermediate steps!
“I just made up that word because there wasn’t an existing one, but I think it would really help us a lot to have a single word — ‘technoactivism’ or something else — that means seriously looking at the technologies we’re likely to develop over the next century, and trying to influence their development.”
I think the word you are looking for is technoprogressivism.
From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technoprogressive :
“Techno-progressivism, technoprogressivism, tech-progressivism or techprogressivism (a portmanteau combining “technoscience-focused” and “progressivism”) is a stance of active support for the convergence of technological change and social change. Techno-progressives argue that technological developments can be profoundly empowering and emancipatory when they are regulated by legitimate democratic and accountable authorities to ensure that their costs, risks and benefits are all fairly shared by the actual stakeholders to those developments.”
Okay, Thomas, I don’t suspect you’re as sociopathic as I thought upon first reading this.
(Certainly not much more so than myself…) Thanks for your even and lucid response.
I definitely disagree with you that 1984 – or for that matter, Brave New World – would protect us from destroying ourselves; to the contrary, I think that every reason we have to preserve and evolve human life would be snuffed out by such scenarios. All we’d have left is the faint glimmer of hope that the structures would (as they all do) eventually collapse and leave the barren earth once again available for the development of true culture.
Let’s put that aside for a minute, though. I’m off to read your link…in the meantime, you might enjoy these articles, which will familiarize you as best I can with my perspective on these matters:
http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/enhanced/psychedelic-transhumanists
http://www.nextnature.net/2009/12/the-playboy-interview-marshall-mcluhan
You know how to get ahold of me if you’d like to continue this conversation. Have a good one…
TM: “If you can make a widget, why not make a billion?”
MG: “Maybe because more widgets aren’t the answer?”
TM: “The answer to what? Of course, more widgets won’t solve all of our problems. But then, neither will anything else. Curing smallpox isn’t the answer to poverty, war, heart disease or indigestion. Does that mean it was bad or unimportant?”
That’s a false dichotomy. I’m not suggesting that technological advance won’t help us address today’s problems (while creating new and hopefully “better” ones); I’m questioning your seemingly-unexamined “more is better” mentality.
And as far as that goes, you never responded to my concerns that you seem to exhibit a somewhat unsubstantiated faith in enlightened leadership by a technocratic elite…